SO YA THINK YOU CAN ONE UP JESUS! REALLY?

Throughout the Bible, there is verse following verse, given by authors inspired by the glory of God, which compel us to allocate our wealth and our gifts to those less fortunate and in need. As you see in Exodus 23:4, “If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again”. The command by God is not just directed at the poor, but the needy as well.

In many cases the biblical authors explain to us the special place God has set aside for the poor in His kingdom. But it is not just those who have not acquired material goods but in other areas as well. In the famous Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:3, you will read those legendary words of Jesus, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. The command goes far beyond the rich mans ability to spread his wealth. In Luke 4:18 Christ quotas the prophet Esaias “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised”. James reminds us in chapter 2, verse 5, “Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?”

But in Matthew 26:11, Mark 14:7, John 12:8 Jesus says (quoted from Mark) “For ye have the poor with you always.”And in 1 Corinthians 13:3 Paul writes, “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing”. You ought to discover a bit about how the Bible speaks to charity on your own. And in verse 10, “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with.”

So my friends, no amount of vast government spending will alleviated the suffering of the poor. Instead we should be good stewards of the resources we have available locally to produce the best and most desired effects. Strive to be a quality parent and family member. Join community not for profit organizations and give abundantly to those on which you can keep a watchful eye. Use your talents to expedite the unleashing of a unifying spirit that will spread to the four corners of the earth.

And PLEASE!, leave to government that which the founders so clearly outlined and guard against its gobbling up of power that only afflicts the poor and weak. I would never suggest that my opponents in this debate have an ulterior motive in using government. I just believe they are using the wrong methods to achieve goals we all desire.

That would be to answer Christ’s call to do all we can to help those in need.

The Constitution created a federal government with only enumerated powers. All powers not listed were reserved to the states and the people. During the debate over adoption of the Constitution, the Constitution’s advocates also enumerated powers the federal government absolutely would not have. Therefore. The Bill of Rights-including the Tenth Amendment-was adopted.

The Tenth Amendment reads: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In a variety of speeches, articles, letters, and pamphlets, the “enumerators”, including, among others, Alexander Hamilton, James Wilson, John Marshall, and of course, James Madison, listed some powers they solemnly promised would be outside the federal sphere.
The one’s we are interested in for this discussion but not limited to, are: family affairs, control of personal property outside of commerce, education, and oh my, here it is, services for the poor and unfortunate.

I bet they knew all about Jesus’ claim that the poor would be with us always and were determined to leave the federal government out of trying to make Jesus a liar. Any such attempt by those who adore big government can be witnessed as an abject failure.

And so it will be until the end of time.

THE SPEECH THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN

On APR. 15, 2010 a Tea Party Patriots rally was held in downtown Chico CA at the Chico City Plaza. I was a late entry to be on stage that day and as fate would have it, got pre-empted by the Butte County District Attorney. Maybe that was a get even moment for him. About fifty years earlier, Mike, another friend Jeff, and I were swimming at Feather Plunge and I hit my head on the side of the pool and we lost about 3 hrs of swimming that day. Obviously, Mike never got over that! As it turns out, I was not afforded the time to speak, even at the very end. I guess the time was up. In any event, I wanted you all to be able to read the rousing speech. Here it is. BC

Good Morning Tea Party Patriots. As was just stated, I am Bob Crosby… Now!…you can just forget the name. I’m not a politician! I’m not running for any office!

I do want to apologize right here. I am a writer….NOT a public speaker

But we….each one of us….YOU and YOU and YOU Right Out THERE…..we need to get out of our comfort zone

TODAY IS THAT TIME!

In an August of 2008 interview, Rick Warren posed the question to candidate Obama. WHAT IS OUR NATIONS GREATEST FAILING? Mr. Obama quoted Jesus.

"Whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me".

In August of 2009, President Obama pulled out the scripture card again during an Internet phone call with a bunch of, so called “religious leaders”. He used the words,

“I am my brothers keeper”

That is a core ethical and moral obligation....AND......I ALSO..believe that to be true.

BUT!...The context was not for a personal commitment but to muster support for a one payer universal health care system

Politicians love to invoke the name of GOD and the life of JESUS to bolster support and creation of a greater and more intrusive welfare state.

In the last several election cycles, new technologies and new media have been used very effectively against conservatives.

Blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and all sorts of other networking tools.

We must do the same!

We have started a debate at my blog

I invite you to come over to: bcandafter.blogspot.com

Join the debate….Get out of your comfort zone!

TODAY IS THE DAY TO STAND UP!

You have done so by coming here today
Go away from here today inspired to change one heart, one mind

YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! CHANGE ONE HEART!

Be determined……BELIEVE YOU CAN CHANGE ONE MIND!

I BELIEVE YOU CAN! TEA PARTY PATRIOTS!

DO YOU BELIEVE? TEA PARTY PATRIOTS, DO YOU BELIEVE?

TEA PARTY PATRIOTS! BELIEVE!
TEA PARTY PATRIOTS! BELIEVE!
THANK YOU!

Bill Has Joined

ThanX Bill, for joining. And no, we are not interested in "babble". But I expect that at times the conversation may start to sound like we are reenacting the lives of folks who lived in the land of Shinar and built the tower of Babel. Some folks will not understand what we are doing here and try to subvert the conversation by leading it off on some tangent. It is my job to steer as well as rebut.

So your point, “without an end game, why even entertain the examination of Christ’s words?”

While I agree with you in principle, there is an added ingredient. Christians believe we are on this sphere only as a stopping point on the road to where we are going and sometimes I believe many demonstrate the utter disregard for anything secular. Christians often seem less inclined to effect the government because their controlling authority is a supreme power and there is nothing they need to do concerning this terrestrial power. But I’ve noticed, not just lately, that politicians like to call out Christians by summoning our God to their side, almost to the point of being provocative. Using the Bible and the words of Jesus to support one or any of their big government grandiose schemes. That is the conversation here. I am the disciple who cut off the ear of the Roman guard in The Garden as they followed Judas up the hill to betray Jesus. Right or wrong, it's time for action! I’m a bit hesitant to wait on an end game to make the lives of my grandkids complete. I expect to fight regressive earthly powers. My friends, the time is NOW! BC

Welcoming Jim

Jim Wheeler and Robert have been starting up a discussion back under a 2008 post titled "Yeah, About That". First, that's great! Second, everyone would like to read any and all comments. So, we need to keep the debate/discussion under my posts that are current and labeled "Debate/Jesus", if you all don't mind. I would call on both Jim and Robert's attention to what the debate is centered on. Yes, it is Jesus. So we all know who the character is. At that point I'm not sure it's relevant to debate whether one believes Christs name, or origin of His name, is one or from some other. We are here to discuss His words, not whether His name was Bill, George, anything but Sue! (Thanks Johnny Cash)

Gordon has left a challenging comment for Robert, but I am still about a week out from charging in with my own challenges, so I'm just sitting back and trying to get as large a group in here so that the fun can start.

But welcoming Jim brings additional satisfaction. The dude can cook some tasty looking meet. How do I get him on my side? BC

Welcoming Robert

I'd like to refer you to the comments under the post, "Commentary On Big Government". It is labeled "Political" but those who have commented there have lead us back to the label, "Debate/Jesus". If you are following the blog just for the debate and are not interested in following my opinions or stories, just click on the label you are interested in. But I hope all will go back to the archives and catch up on who I am and what we are doing here at B.C. and After

Thank you Robert for your contribution. I will allow Gordon the opportunity to defend his own comment. At any point as the discussion unfolds, I may throw in with one side or the other. In an effort to gain clarity, I may assume the role of referee or I might attempt to push the conversation in a direction where I believe the proposition is being accurately defended or rebutted. At all times, whether noted or assumed, I would like the comments to be biblically supported. However, asking a question to get clarification from a commenter is a perfectly accepted tool or method to challenge and obviously has no need for any supporting text.

If I read your comment correctly, Robert, I believe you are stating that this whole undertaking is simply irrelevant and that Jesus directs no responsibility of humanity to any other authority than His own. I do not want to rebut something I have misstated. So I’ll try to defend you first. The provision of our salvation, that is, “eternal life”, is Christ’s alone. Nowhere in the Bible can I find an assignment of our responsibility to that end, lent or given “joint custody” to a civil government. So you are correct on that point. But Christ was not silent about government. He was, however, unequivocal in delineating two separate spheres of authority and activity, the sacred and the secular. In Mark 12:17, Jesus tells His followers, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s”.

That is part of what has brought us to this discussion on this blog. Since it is Christ who introduced government into the discussion, not myself, the question becomes, “What part, if any, of His command to love our neighbor, or the Christian charitable mission, should be given over as the responsibility of an entity such as the federal government, and if any, how much?”

COMMENTARY ON BIG GOVERNMENT

Before I state my first proposition, (which will not be until as many folks can become aware, and letters to the editor are published) let me make something very clear about what I believe to be a scourge in our country. Let me point out the elephant in the room. You may consider my opinion to be that of resentment or disgust of the poor and less fortunate. That could not be farther from the truth. It seems to me that the federal government redistributes a great amount of wealth to the rich and powerful, too. If we are going to limit the welfare state, we must start by ending the obscene practice of using the power of the government through the treasury in bailouts and handouts to corporations, subsidies to wealthy conglomerates, funding to the politically connected, dead end study and research grants to universities, and higher education scams that indoctrinate instead of educate. Our founding fathers had it right! Washington likened government to fire--useful when carefully confined and controlled, but fearsomely destructive when it surges out of control. Jefferson said that Americans should diligently use the chains of the Constitution to prevent government from “mischief.

But one thing must be added, not in defense of big business or corporations, but just a question in passing as we head to the spiritual side and the study of Christ. Is government really like God, with bigger being better? Would you really empower executives from major corporations, (you know, the ones you love to hate) oh say, like Bear Stearns, Citibank, or AIG to control your life. How about letting them determine your tax burden, devise school curricula, and regulate your business. That’s frightening to those suffering from “corpora phobia”, and guess what, I cringe from the idea myself. But why hand over such power to the federal government? Upon acquiring positions in government, folks just don’t suddenly become angelic or receive special dispensation from the frailties of human existence. Are politicians any less elitists or vastly more diverse? Would you place your children in a corporate daycare center whose executives make the decisions 1000 miles away or in your local “Teddy Bear and Hugs Daycare”? What about your local sheriff? Do you expect me to believe Butte Co. is going to suddenly contract the service to, oh let’s say, Blackwater? There are a lot of good folks in Chico CA. who have waged a campaign against Wal-Mart. Your idea or vision of Mr. Pop, half owner of “Mom and Pop’s Grocery”, is that of a fellow you meet as you walk down the street, or who offers personalized service when you’re searching for a special kind of cereal. In contrast, you disdain the big wigs from corporate USA whose rarefied air you not only will never breath but would even have trouble locating.

So, why the allegiance to the giant entity in the public arena, when the opposite is true in the private?

The principle of “subsidiarity”, coined recently by Selwyn Duke, “which states that the smallest unit of society capable of performing a given function should be the one to do so. This is why small government shouldn't be a Republican, conservative or even just a constitutionalist idea; it is simply a correct idea. It is why it’s not even just a government idea; it applies to everything. If the “family government” can handle a task, a community organization’s “government” cannot do a better job; if the former cannot tackle something but the latter can, there’s no reason to involve local government".

And the feds are the last in the chain! BC

Just A Comment

I have given four newspapers in my local area, letters to the editor to be published soon, announcing our discussion. I'm trying to come up with other ways to get more traffic into the comment section. Anyone who spreads the word gets a.....Well isn't that what Christ compels us to do!

Yesterday (Apr. 5) I wrote 600 words but can not offer them to you as they are, because I broke my own rules. I'll edit and shorten and publish today or tomorrow. BC

PART TWO
RULES OF DEBATE
　
What we do not want to do here is jump around all over the place, winding up confluent and incoherent. It is my blog, so we will be credible and with biblical references, taking it slow, hashing out a specific stance. In other words, those of you on the opposing side might state Jesus’ encounter with the rich man in Mark 10, (underscoring the debate for and against redistribution of wealth). In the middle of laying out one’s perspective on that story, let’s not allow another participant to change the subject to charity that could be found in say, Matt. 22:37-39, or Mark 12:29-31. I’m just saying at the very least that we will agree to disagree before moving on to highlight another event, sermon, or parable in the life of Jesus. When I said above, “take it slow”, hey! I have some responsibilities in life! There are going to be times that I will not be able to rebut comments immediately. So don’t go talking on top of yourself, we won’t solve the problems of the world this or next week. Let us reason together.

I am not inviting you all to my blog in an attempt to make someone look bad and will carefully with an open mind consider your viewpoints. I have not exaggerated my claim of the desire to alleviate the suffering of the poor and afflicted. The ultimate end to this debate is to further my attempt to do so, that is, to alleviate suffering where it is possible, and to ask you who appose my methods to join me. That is to say, we, all of you who will visit my bog and make comments over the next several months, and myself, will together come to a conclusion and then take systematic and curative action. I hope you will join me to that end.

And you thought I was going to suggest a lengthy (common to any Crosby list) compilation of subjective decrees in an attempt to stifle dissent.

Tomorrow, The Start of Debate. I hope you all will allow me a bit of editorializing as I initiate debate in the morning. Thanks, BC

OPEN LETTER TO A CHERISHED FRIEND

WAS JESUS A RADICAL BIG GOVERNMENT
LIBERAL / PROGRESSIVE?
PART ONE
It is Easter 2010. I think for all Christians, and I include myself within that group, this holiday is one of the greatest weekends in history. Most significant, I assert. But what of 2010? How is this Easter any different or more important? In my small world it is, for one reason. For folks around this world who happened to have graduated from High School in 1970, it is theirs, and my 40th class reunion. Now, I included Easter in my proclamation, not to complain, but just to state in passing, that such a family oriented holiday would be the choice of organizers of an event such as a 40th class reunion. However, at Rio Lindo Academy, every year is the same. That is to say, that all classes show up, and that has been the way since the beginning in 1962. But there are highlight classes and one of those this year, was the class of ‘70. There were suggestions, by those doing diligence to detail, that we could start reconnecting on Facebook. I have to say that after creating my “wall” on Facebook, not only have I reconnected with classmates, but long lost friends around the world. It makes me feel a bit sad and guilty that I was not able to attend the “big event” and likely lost something I can never get back and that I would have cherished for the rest of my life. But I’ll look on the bright side, I’ve found Facebook and many of those friends are starting to rekindle old friendships and I intend to continue with that endeavor.

One of the difficulties you encounter when you have not spoken to a particular friend in twenty, thirty, and in some cases, forty years is that said friend has grown, matured, and been subjected to ideas and influences quite differently than one’s own. There become formulated, considered or calculated, spiritual or political, opinions that by the age of fifty-eight, almost certainly are set in stone. To discuss, challenge or debate these issues often can lead to discourse that may be abrasive, disrespectful, disconcerting and hostile. It is with one special friend that, shall we say, determined discussions have taken place. I don’t feel we reached the argumentative stage, and at no time did I sense any hostility. However, I have two different and competing dilemmas. I did not initiate any challenge and only stated certain highlights and identifiers on Facebook, which included my distinction as a conservative. At that point the challenge became, “Jesus was a radical at the other end of the spectrum”. I suppose that is to say, Jesus was a progressive, since liberals do not like the “L” word, that He could not have been a conservative because he spent His whole life alleviating the afflictions of the poor and needy, and that, “of coarse”, is counter intuitive to conservatism. But a second assertion, quite different than the labeling of Christ, brought us to an impasse. My good friend’s disputation is that Jesus was, and continues to this day, to be a “big government” activist, and so directs us, shall I say in my own words, to follow Him. It is my opinion that the two are counter competing views. While I gave my friend the benefit of the doubt, that we both desired the same end for the less fortunate of our world, the vehicle for realizing the conclusion of all suffering was the debate. But my friend did not offer me the same consideration. His argument seemed to be; since the instrument or mechanism I would employ to alleviate suffering, private entities and personal charity, did not meet his litmus test of a welfare state, then it must logically follow, I, Bob Crosby, could really care less about the plight of the poor and less fortunate. How do you argue against a straw man insinuation or allegation? I chose to pull back. But something keeps nagging at me. He has no right to categorize Christ in his own terms. Therefore I set out to rethink my position strictly from a biblical standpoint. Prayer and study did not change my position. Seeking advice from those who mentor me and disciple me has not done so either. I must now stand up for Jesus and defend my position, and I believe, biblical fact. I seek to do this in a public arena, my blog. There, folks can leave comment, and no identities need be acknowledged and my class mate can debate or not. The above word “public” I hope will lend credence to the fact that I am open and willing to an honest debate at a location with facts and challenges documented for all time. So, the question stands; was Jesus a big government liberal? Part Two to follow, after I’ve announced the challenge. Rest assured, I will continue with or without my good friend, for there must be others who would stand in for him should he wish not to debate. Any and all are welcome.